Debate...Oct, 7, 2008...
Oct 7, 2008 - Presidential Debate notes

Question: Fastest and best way to bail out of Economic ruin?

Sen Obama first Failed economic policies of the last 8 years. ["balderdash, still going after that DAMN stupid talking point".]

Step 1 is the rescue package and strong oversight and get money back to the tax payers.
Step 1? tax cuts for middle class
Long term healthcare and energy system
[no step 2?]



McCain
Energy Indpendance, and not send money overseas to enemies
Stop spending spree, 10 Trillion dollar debt, 5 billion owed to china.
[He's not GETTING at the FM/FM issue on the target. Fred Thompson wouldn't let this go]
Buy up bad home loan morgtages and issue the loans at the diminised home values, [Government to EAT the loss. Ick ick ick, oh my aching tax return]

Discussion: Who to appoint to the Treasury Secretary
McCain - Meg Whitman, e-bay chair?
Obama - Warren Buffet
middle class tax cut to 95% of america, the working class...

Still not a debate, just two broken up speeches...

Question: The bailout, what is it...whats in it for the voter...
McCain, Greed and excess in Wallstreet and DC....[good, but he's not driving it home...
FM/FM OBAMA's cronies....[FINALLY, Going at the issue]
Obama is largest donee of FM/FM in history at this point.

Obama: No credit, can't make payroll, have to close doors and shut jobs.
Obama says that FM/FM wasn't his fault or the democrats, deregulation of the Financial system.....[Balderdash, the accountability is NOT in the companies...]
Says McCain's Campaign Chariman's firm was a lobbyist for FM/FM.
Obama says he wrote to the Treasury Secretary....to regulate...[Why didn't he talk to his party Chair, the one that controlls congress?]

Discussin...
Economy is going to get worse before it gets better...?
Obama: it will get better but we need leadership from washington...

McCain:


Question: How can we trust either of you when both parties got us into this global economic crisis:
Obama: Lays the deficit on George Bush...ignores the whole thing on bush...Biggest increases in deficit spending...Borrwing form china and sending to Saudi Arabia...? [how's that work?]
Propsoing net spending cut...

McCain: System is broken in DC. Plugging McCain FiengolDiscussion:..
Says OBama hasn't taken on leaders of his party...[true true true..]


Discussion: Three Priorities
Healthcare, Energy, Entitlement Reform
McCain, can fix them all at once.
Reform entitlements, can't continue same stance...[leaving an opening]


Obama:
Prioritize
#1 Energy...[Obama was GOOD with the high price of fuels earlier this year]
Investment of $15 Bn/year on....what? Oil, nuke, fusion?
#2 Healthcare
#3 Education....? wasn't one of the above...

Obama wants to eliminate federal programs that don't work...
Points out $200 Bn tax cut that McCain wants...ignores that tax cuts increase federal revenue...

Question: Since WWII never been asked to sacrifice anything but blood of our men...
What sacrifices would you ask americans to help the US get out of the economic slump?

McCain...examine every agency and get rid of those that aren't useful...
Defense spending waste....Good point, I know this, most don't.
Earmarks...
Spending Freeze save for Defense, Veterans, and a few others.

Can attack both Health Insurance and Energy at the same time.

Obama:
A lot of us can remember 9/11...[who can't remember 9/11?]
Now beleives in increased oil production? Offshore drilling
Wants oil companies to use 68 million acres to use or losse them.
"Safe ways to store nuclear energy"?
Wants fuel efficient cars for the US made here. And ways to weatherize your home. umm, [This old house, duh]
Public service corps....[NRA? Not that one, the other one]



Obama: disagrees with an across the board freeze...[Wants to cut but not cut?]
McCain: Nailing jello to the wall....Raising taxes during tough economic times was hoover. Point.
Tax increases will hit small businesses. Double tax exemption for children and $5K tax credit...


Question: on huge unfunded entitlements....Woudl you give congress a date to reform SS and Medicare?

Obama:
Take on entitlements....quickly...can't guarntee in first 2 years...I thought the DNC said that SS was fine?
Tax cut for 95% of americans if you make less than $250,000 a year...
1/3 of tax filers. don't PAY income tax.
Tax cuts aren't fair....[Fair got us into the economic fix!]

McCain:
Sit down fix it...reference to

Question: Congress moved fast on the Bailout, can congress move fast on the climate change and green jobs...
[Uggh, Green jobs aren't the business of the government. Hello]

McCain:
Pushing Nuke...[good]

Obama:
One of the biggest challenges of our times...
create 5 million new jobs...? How? Like Computers inveted by government scientist for military communications...? [Umm, not quite]

[one minute system not working, poor Tom]

Discussion: Manhatton project for nuke/energy or small research in garages and private labs?

McCain:

Obama:

Question: Treat healthcare as a commodoty...?

Obama: If you have healthcare, you can keep your plan, but they'll try to lower it....
If you dont' have healthcare you'll be able to buy healthcare like a gov't employee...points to

McCain: Points to Government Mandates on Obama's proposed programs.
5K refund for healthcare...

Discussion: Healthcare priveldege right or responsibility...?

McCain: Responsibility....
Dislikes government mandates

Obama: Right...
Wants mandates, says its good, crack down on companies that are cheating customers. Doesn't want shopping state to state. [Wants to break Federalism?]

Foreign Policy-
Question: How will all the recent economic stress effect US peace making efforts?

McCain: Strong nations have to have strong economies...
dinging Obama's Natl Security statements...

Obama: How we invaded Iraq...Doesn't understand...[Ceasefire breach]
We werne't greeted as liberators...[yes, we WERE!]
We didn't have resources to do something aboout Darfur

Discussion: What is Obama Doctrine for humanitarian crisis...Congo or Rwanda or Somalia...What would you send?

Obama: If we could have stopped Rwanda [we could have!] We have national interest to assist if we can. [so we couldn't do so in Iraq...Kurds, Marsh Arabs.. just get to take it eh?]

McCain: Dings obama on dateline to leave Iraq. Bring them home in victory and honor. Do what ever we can to do to prevent genocides. But requires it to have the ability to fix it. Points to Somalia and Lebanon debacles as places were we coudln't affect things positively with US troops.
[Best answer yet!]

Question: Should the US respect Pakistani Sovereignty.. or ignore it as we did Cambodian borders in Vietnam?

Obama: Dings Mccain/bush/et at on Iraq and the excape of Bin Laden. Stronger now than in 2001. Wants to 'reverse' course. [Heard of the Germany Fist doctrine?] change policies with Pakistan and can't coddle dictator....Expand non-military aid and insist they persue militants. Kill Bin Laden, crush A Q.

McCain: Hero is Teddy Roosevelt...Dings Obama's annoucne to attack Pakistan...Points to Pakistan and loosing Pakistani publica opinion. Relations with Pakistan are critical. Points to Petreus doctrine [COIN].

Obama followup: Says didn't call for invasion of Pakistan...[If Pakistan doesn't cooperateWe should go in there, that's invasion....]
Points to McCain on wanting to bomb Iran and NK. Points to our loss of support in PAkistan as due to support of Musharif and loss of freedoms. [The urbane freedom types are NOT the hill people we're being attacked by]

McCain followup: Not going to telegraph his punches, he'll get OBL, but won't say how. [point][

Discussion: Comments on Developments in Afghanistan...Failing in A'stan got to get down to the low level insurgency...need an acceptable dictator....

Obama: Make Iraqi government take more responsiblity...and withdraw from there to put troops in Afghanistan. Work with Kharzai government to get them to be more successful and responsive to afghan people.

McCain: Petreus ahs taken over command resp for A'stan. Differnet tactics, but streamline NATO command and get Afghans on the job but work on the same methods [COIN]
Dings Obama on Surge not working opinion.


Question: how can we apply pressure to Russia on humanitarian issues with out a cold war?

McCain: Russia's behavior is outside of the proper behavior...Points to Putin and KGB methods/history/functionaries...Show support of Georgia and Ukrane and advocate their membership in NATO.
Obama: Resurgence of Russia is a central issue of the next presidency...Can't just provide moral support...provide them with financial and concrete assistance to rebuild economies...
See around corners...Obama says he was predicting Georgian problems...


Discussion: Do you think Russia is an Evil Empire?

Obama: No, but they still have nationalist impulses

McCain: Maybe...depends on how we respon and how they respond...points to the compelxity and how response need to be held close.


Question: As retired navy chief PO, my thoughts are of support of israel, woudl you be willing to commit US troops to support israel.

McCain: Russia and china would pose significant obstacles. Iran is not a threat to JUST Israel, but to other countries [shia vs sunni]

Obama: Important to use all tool at dispoasl. Proposes oil embargos to Iran. Points to NK quadrupled their capabilites after cessation of discussions. [this ignores the increase while we WERE discussing with NK under Clinton]


Question: What don't you know and how will you learn it.

Obama: We need change....[no hope?]




[Ahh, frak, McCain didn't take the gloves off. Where's Tigh?]